Final table of the $230 (11AM MLK day @ foxwoods)

[IvyinBarondise]

Went there on my day off b/c of the early deep stack (20K)...

163 entered...


6 handed I've got just under 400K....right around the chip average...

blinds are 5000/10000 ante 500

I'm UTG and look down @ JJ.... final table play has turned into a shoving match as expected and there's one player above all others who has really punished early position raises and still hasn't gotten caught. He's a huge chip lead and I'm thinking with him on the button this could be a great opportunity to chip up...

I make it 27000 and the action folds to him...he flats from the button and I'm thinking he's got a playable hand and had a reason to assume I was strong enough to like my chances in a preflop showdown should he repop...blinds both fold....

flop: 8 9 10 with two clubs...

I took a few extra moments to consider my options here... If I bet and he raises I'm obviously going with the hand here...do I REALLY wanna invite the raise? Should I check?....

decide I don't want to check and give him a free card to improve so I bet 55000....he instantly shoves....i mean w/o a second's hesitation although he obviously had already made up his mind what to do should I put a bet out there...I actually have a lot to consider at this point....more then I thought I would and now I'm thinking about the money difference between 6th and up...I don't have much of a read on the players at my table and I've never seen any of them there before. This tournament hasn't attracted a lot of the higher play that shows up @ woods b/c this isn't a full tournament schedule...just a decent AM for MLK day...

I decide there's too much in the pot to fold and I'm playing to win so I call...never really a doubt I guess and he turns over 7 10 with a redraw in hearts....

turn: 7...he's somewhere around 10% with his 4 outer....but i've got that sick feelingggg....

river: 7, shocker :-/


who folds there? Who checks the flop there? It's an interesting situation...why didn't that fuck just raise pre like he had been? lol...

[cubsker]

it's the most obvious bet/call in the history of poker.

[mogo]

Standard bet-call spot

Unlucky river

[misschung]

it's the most obvious bet/call in the history of poker.

/thread

[twinkie13]

gimme a lil more

[DeFaz]

[mogo]

what did 6th pay?

[IvyinBarondise]

around 1800.... the jumps were pretty big i remember, 8K to first wasn't much bigger then third which got somewhere over 4K but obviously no taxes...

i sincerely don't know what your hardon for me is cub, buy just b/c the bet/call was probably the most standard way for the hand to play out doesn't mean it's nearly as simple as you would have it to be. Could've overbet the pot to show my opponent there was no fold equity and he might have rethought a shove...I could've checked and it's possible it goes to the turn....on the turn there's also a chance i could take it down...both players had the opportunity to move up w/o playing a big hand...how it went down is deff the most standard way to play the situation but give me a break kid...You literally talk like a guy who makes 100K a year playing poker. It's getting funny how you find a way to literally disagree with every single thing posted and when you agree with how to play the hand you disagree it's even worthy of posting about on CTG....I probably should've posted this in "bad beats" but whatever lol. I've played in 16 events @ woods with an average buy in of just over $185....I've cashed in 8, with 6 final tables and over 14,000 in prize money with no cash over 5K so no taxes. I crushed online SNGs with tilt for over 3 years and were consistently on leaderboards. All of these things can be verified and looked up on sharkscope, some on foxwoods's websites, some are even clocked on cardplayer. I have played more hands then maybe 99.9% of the county, get off my back kid.

[mogo]

Roflmao.....

I want my chips in the middle everytime I have JJ vs 107 .... the chip counts pushed the action it seems at only around 40bbs, but u still get it in with a c/r flop or c/c flop, c/r turn or bet/call turn.... I don't understand why you seem to think these other lines are better? Results oriented much?


Ps-comments like "I've played more hands than 99% of the country" make u sound like such joke.....

[IvyinBarondise]

no, i check my ego at the door...i cant say the same for others here...

i also MADE the bet/call...I agree it's the best move. I disagree it's so standard it's not worth considering other options or posting the hand on a discussion forum, especially when it was mainly for the bad beat...

[IvyinBarondise]

the only move that is legitimately worth considering is the flop overbet...idk if it has any long term legitimate value...but if you've got a read on your opponent and he doesn't look scared by a flop like that and have a feel he's going to re raise with a marginal hand...it's got some potential value...

it's actually worth discussing, if you're committed to the hand either way and are content with taking down the pot on the flop, it's worth considering.

[IvyinBarondise]

had to go with the rolling on floor version of lmao huh?

love everybody positioning in for the mock/ego masturbation...

Everybody's dying to get in and prove to nobody how much they know about a subject by simply laughing at someone else for absolutely no reason, accomplishing absolutely nothing. I give up lol

[misschung]

No one is out to get you Ivey, RELAX. It really is a simple decision. Why would you want to over bet and get a fold in a spot where you have good equity against most hands that will get it in. Especially when the tournament is most likely very top heavy

[IvyinBarondise]

misschung- obviously hindsight is 20/20 and I agree the best move is to bet and call knowing you're getting it in well ahead...but I talk to a lot of tournament pros and a lot of them would much rather assume zero risk with a small win there and chip up with preflop aggression and $$ up with other people busting ahead of your action....

Some of these guys are pretty successful. I think it's a strategy that's worth considering, perhaps not possible to utilize in THIS hand...but in other more difficult situations in the FT....

I read Deeb's blog once a few years ago, and then exchanged a few emails about mid tournament flop floats on a preflop raised hand...preflop button 4 bets in late tournament play with marginal/any hands...and also surviving the run @ the FT table....

the one part of this I neglected to mention is that @ woods...4 and 5 left...you usually see a LOT of deals...IRS taxes any win over 5K....

it almost had a double/nothin kinda feel...part of me didn't really even wanna be in the hand....that's the theme behind my original post

[mogo]

Exactly what boss said... why on earth would u overbet and get hands u dominate to fold? U want to play this hand, but from your posts u didn't... I don't get it?

[IvyinBarondise]

keep in mind I cant see his cards lol...I don't know I'm dominating him until he turns over his hand.... he's essentially a coinflip if he's even just got a pair flushdraw....he doesn't HAVE to flat from the button with a marginal hand...it's just the most obvious play seeing as how the vast majority of experienced players wouldn't want to invite the blinds into the hand pre or me a chance to catch up on the flop...

I like my hand...i think i'm ahead....I don't know what chance he has of winning the hand but say I saw his cards and a Q and a flush draw....he's just around a 40/60 dog...say I also know two more eliminated players will promote a deal that doesn't give proper value to the chip leader....it's worth talking about...

again, I made the call considering him to be somewhere between 25-<50%....was happy when I saw his cards....but of course there are times when it's better to sit back and $$ up as well

[twinkie13]

I can play poker some, clearly not on the level you guys can here.(That means I cannot LOL)

But if one played every hand "right" or played on a "hunch", the "right" way to play/bet comes out on top more often than not over time essentially, correct?

[IvyinBarondise]

it's almost the same argument as the "right side" of a losing bet in one aspect...

on one hand, if you get your money in in a cash game with the best hand...you're going to profit in the long term....

on the other hand, in tournament play there's a lot more that can come into it... My question that I posed in this thread could have much better examples.... There are players who are always trying to outplay their opponent on every hand and will take any advantage with all their chips in middle over and over again. Which would kill their chances of surviving till the end. They'll amass a massive chip lead once in a blue moon and the rest of the time they wont see the $$, they'd have to win every FT they enter just to post a small profitable ROI. My post was a hand in the final table which changes things considerably.

But in general, if you get your chips in with the best hand you're going to (at least) win THAT hand more often then not...AK beats A6 w/ no flushes about 3-1 preflop and better then 8-1 with no draws out there on the flop and a paired ace.

A good example of making the "right play" with the best hand is always gonna come up in cash...

Four guys raise prior to your button and you make a call with 7 9 suited (Jbax's favorite button hand) and both blinds call... flop comes 6 8 of diamonds and 2 of spades....First raiser comes out firing a pot sized bet and everybody folds to your action. You re raise and the blinds fold and the initial aggressor shoves all his money in the middle. You've got 9 high but the "right" play is to call.... you're ahead of pocket aces and there's plenty of equity to get your chips in....

i've got a customer, bbl